S3:E3 Pat McCorkle | Casting, Self-Tapes Post-Covid

Hi, I'm Carolyn Amos.

And I'm Raymond McAnally.

And we are Fatigued (laughter). Pat, thank you so much for joining us on Fatigued Pod today. To get started, do you mind giving us a little bit of a brief introduction about who you are?

Absolutely. I am Pat McCorkle, I'm the head of McCorkle casting. I've been around for ever (laughs) I do plays and TV and film. And I love the mix. I'm based in New York. And I studied at Rutgers undergrad and NYU grad and then worked at TCG. The company, everybody, you all know it as a place where they do where they have the magazine. But when I worked there, they cast for all the regional theaters in the country. There was a place to go. And, and so I got to meet everybody in the world, and still have a lot of those connections. And I'm firmly entrenched in believing that regional theater is so critically important to development in Yeah, yes, yes. And I keep that to this day. Plus, I'm doing the other things. I worked at ECG for a while. And then I left and started a company with a partner and was with him for two and a half years and we split and I've been on my own for quite a while now. So that kind of is who I am.

Kind of is who you are. I love that. I really love what you just said about regional theatre being so important, just as a kid from the Midwest who couldn't afford to go see a Broadway play ever. I mean, that's that was those were my highlights in my educational life. So yeah, that resonates with me.

That's how Carolina and I met. I was doing One Man, Two Guvnors at St. Louis Rep. And Caroline was in the other show.

I was doing Midsummer. The Hermia the track. Yeah. Which is cool, because That's the regional theater that I grew up seeing. So

Yeah, and I was involved. I've been involved with it on and off forever. We got our old Steve wolf days.

Oh yeah.

God bless Steve.

Our Hana Sharif days now. Yeah. It's a wonderful, wonderful theater. It's really very, very good.

Really is.

Well, I've been excited about this. Because, Pat, I don't know if you know it, but you're one of my favorite people in the industry. Without you, I would not have started my career as quickly as I did. I booked my very first Yeah, I think I got all of my cards through you. Really? Really? Yeah, I booked my first theater gig through you wait Long Wharf, Midsummer Night's Dream it Long Wharf. So it's wonderful to talk to you. I'm sorry about the circumstances because to fill our audience in. We asked Pat to be a part of our industry series, not just because of her, her, of course, her industry background and knowledge. But also because she did have COVID. She was a COVID patient herself, just like Carolina and I. And so we wanted to make sure to talk about that, as we segue into industry stuff as well. Remind me you had it very, very early on in the pandemic...

I had it at the very beginning. You know, it's that kind of thing that I thought I had the flu, except it didn't go away. And I didn't have it as bad as other people for sure. I had primarily the fatigue. I mean, it was like, hmm, let me think about whether I need to go to the bathroom or not really, it's six feet away. And that's a major, you know, in that place that lasted two weeks. I did have, you know, a look at some of the headaches I had certainly the aches and pains. The funny thing I had that is different from other people was I had where everybody says you lose your sense of taste. And so I had very high sense of taste. Everything was too salty or too sweet. And during this entire period, I have a wonderful GP. And I called her up and I'm saying, you know, I couldn't have COVID because this is what's happening to me. And she said it's affecting your taste buds, whether it go high or low, it's still affecting your taste buds. So something is off. And I never went to the hospital. I didn't need to go Luckily, and I have a wonderful husband who sort of took care of me during the whole time. But this was at the very beginning. This was even before masks. And I stayed in I stayed in bed because the office was closed.

So this was before everything shut down?

It was after the shutdown, but the shutdown didn't have masks to happen like about a little bit later.

Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah. Because my sister's a nurse and I called her up. I remember saying, should I be wearing a mask or something if I'm sick, and she's not, won't help, it won't help. And then like, two weeks later, she sent me a box of masks that she made. So it was at the very beginning. The funny thing is, Raven, you'll love this is I was teaching my red cross class. They had just come back from London. And I was over the bulk of my fatigue. And we still didn't have it defined. So I would sort of pull everything together and we were doing it on zoom. As Raman knows, I just continued to work. If I'm not working, it's because I'm sleeping. That's pretty much it. That's just the way I am.

For you to say, even though it sounds it might sound to the average person like, Oh, she was tired for you to admit that you were that tired is a big, big deal, because I know you is an absolute Energizer Bunny kind of person.

Yeah. Well, we were we were, you know, it was scary. And obviously, things slow down. We were in the middle of casting a season for a theater. I work with contemporary American Theatre Festival in West cntf. And we were putting together their season. And actually, that Friday. We were about to start callbacks. And you know, they shut Broadway down on Thursday. And Ed Herron Dean, who was the theater was in the office. And he came in and we did the Friday auditions. And I said, Ed, go home. Do not come back Go home. We'll we'll get both what we thought we thought we could tape with the will come in and tape next week. And we'll do you but you get on the train, go back to West Virginia, go away, and we'll send you stuff. And then at the very end of the day, on that Friday, I turn to my staff and I said Are you afraid to come in? And they said yes. And I said, Okay, and then we ask people to send self tapes, the following week for the callbacks. So we we continue doing that thinking, Oh, well, we'll be back in a month. And we'll we'll put this up there. And that's the week I got sick. But I was home. And we just did everything on zoom and tapes. And you know, all that kind of stuff. So we continue to work along the way and trying to get everybody didn't everybody didn't know what they were going to do.

In your career path. Have you? Have you ever had something disrupt production and, and casting on a scale like this?

Oh, no, no. I mean we had 911. You know, and I, a that time, I was working on big studio feature that wa supposed to shoot in Panama. An then it wasn't going to shoot i Panama, right. But the bigges problem we had was we didn' know there were a couple actor that we wanted to get fro Europe. And they were on the yo know, no fly. So we had to kin of noodle around with th casting on it. And flying was little trickier. But Bu honestly, that just took couple weeks. Yeah. And then an then the other issue after tha with casting was wa immigration. I remember a funn the funniest story on that on was, I was doing a wonderfu television show for CBS calle the education of Max Pickfor starring Richard Dreyfuss. An we had worked out a deal. We' been working six months on it to get Peter O'Toole, to be i it. And it was the firs American television series i ever going to be in. And it wa going to NYU at that time, an the show actually shot on th Wagner college campus. And Pete was actually in New Yor visiting his son and we ha worked this all out. And thi was after 911. It was like i 2002 or so. And that week, th week before we needed to shoo the Bush administration to com out with a whole new immigratio thing. And nobody knew what i was. And so we ultimately had t fly Peter O'Toole to Bermuda an then bring him back into th country on a work visa. But w weren't sure he was going to b in the country. would be allowe in the country. Whoa. And th joke was our joke. It worke out, it worked out fine. We go him in at the last minute. Lik we got him in Sunday, we shot o Monday. But the joke was that h had Lawrence of Arabia on hi resume, and they weren't sur that they were the 91 Commission was a flat image, oh my God, we're, my productio manager was having a hear attack, and it was just no on knew. But that that kind o thing, you just, you had time t work that stuff out. And w would just be able to work i out the problem. Now, i addition to all the COVI restrictions, is literall getting the information so w can continue our work. In othe words, everybody's working fro home. And, and I've been able t get hold of agents and, and yo know, other people, actors an stuff, but it takes longe because it's going to go to th office or it's going to go, yo email them or something, i isn't like you could pick up th phone, and so and so get here i an hour to audition. Everythin takes time. And it's still it' still it's better now, becaus some of the agents are back i their office. But you know, an and the other big thing in tha is the rules are differen everywhere, whether you're i New York, and you're trying t call California. And I talked t somebody ICM, a very, very goo friend who was an agent there And he said, I hadn't been i the office in a year. You know I've just, we work from home. S it just takes that kind of time And you you're trying to explai to your your producers and you directors that it isn't like i used to be it isn't that fast That I think zoom is great Yeah

Hang on, though. Tell us more about that. We've heard very few advocates for zoom, I think everybody's a bit fatigued by it. Tell us why?

You know, we are all fatigued, right? There' no question. Literally, this i my sixth zoom call today. We are fatigued by but the advant ges from an from an actor's poin of view is that they can be hom . I mean, we did auditions the o her day, and one of the girls wa in the Virgin Islands, another and she we did a chemistry rea on zoom, which isn't perfect. But we did a chemistry with her and a guy who was in North Carol na. And we were able to watc it now, we wouldn't have been ble to do that live. An so sometimes you you can do t at. And you can also pull pe ple from all over the country. ven some of the regional the ter actors who are wonder ul, absolutely wonderful. my thinking is, maybe we're g nna have a zoom on the first ro nd. And then if you get called b ck, we need you in person. I t ink that will open it up and lso for regional theaters is is ood because the artistic direc ors can stay at home, do what ver they have attend the sess on, then go and do whatever hey have to do, then just com in for the callbacks as oppose to spending a week in New York ith the hotels and all the res of it. So I think there's th ngs that are going to come ou of it. Not all of its perf ct. Musical auditions are ery difficult. So that's a w ole nother thing. Yeah. But it oes give you access to all kind of different peo

Yeah, it does. I think you and I were talking the other day that I've actually really enjoyed my zoom producer sessions, callbacks and things like that, because it feels it feels enough like the room, you know, and you're getting adjustments, and you're getting that kind of feedback and support and, and everything. The the thing that I've noticed that needs that we all need to figure out myself included, is I know I can probably name right off the top of my head about at least a dozen bookings that I have walked into the room and won them over with the helo and and confirmed it with the audition. And then left knowing that I was at least going to get a callback, or I was going to book it. Right. And I haven't quite figured out as an actor, how to find that in a self tape, or how to, you know, get if you're not going to get the zoom thing and you're just putting yourself on camera. You know how to present yourself in the best possible way.

And because you're also such a great comedian and clown and such, it's real hard to tell the physicality.

That is a problem. That's been a big thing for me, not only because of the weight loss in the last year or so, but it is really hard unless you see me next to somebody to see my size. Yeah, you know, and so it's been really interesting, Mike, what do I need to do a cardboard cutout of the average adult male (la

So true. We were doing a, I was doing callbacks for this, this off Broadway musical. And we had two contenders. And I said to the producers, it's really important to understand the size of the people and the chemistry, we would you couldn't begin to tell. And one actor for the Li for that we're auditioning two actors for the lead. One was five, eight, and the other was six, three. And the two girls that we were auditioning for the other lead one was five, seven, and one was 540. And so you can try to imagine that, but obviously, that's great amount of distance. And, and no one in the room except me thought to ask the heights on these people, because you're just going from these headshots, basically, people. The other thing that I've noticed a lot, and is the difference in the writing. I'm working on one film right now, there's three people in it.

Oh, you want to minimize that contact tracing

people to two locations wants to. So we have we've had a change in creative staff. So because we should have been done by now. But it's only three people. And then there's another film that I just got, and it's basically three people, but it starts at a big party, and then which probably will have maybe 12 people in it for like two or three days. And then it's three people. So people are finding different ways of writing. People see things artistically differently now.

Well, it's following the same pattern, the way the plays have been reducing their castes, reducing their runtimes, etc. So that's also that's really interesting. But the fact that they've both done it for for vastly different reasons, right? Yeah.

Now there are a lot of a lot of the theaters are doing 234 person shows, you know, what have you. That's why a crossing, which I think has 18 or 19 in it. We're doing it in September, though. Hmm. So and I think they might even do it outdoors. Yeah, some of the Barrington stages got a, they got hold, they were able to get a parking lot in a huge tent. So there's still a play, play outside.

That is so exciting. I actually kind of love the way that everybody's had to pivot. Within this. I worked at the I was a company member at the great river Shakespeare Festival for about five years. And they had been talking, they were always talking about maybe next year's the year, we're gonna figure out how to get us outside. No, maybe the next year, maybe the next year. And look, this has been they've been handed kind of a tremendous gift, that they finally get an opportunity to put everything outside. And I I love I mean, if there's if anybody's going to be creative in this industry, in any industry, it's going to be the artists. And I think that it's so exciting to see what what is what's new, what's going to come of this, how is this going to influence the next 10 years of theater of film, especially if you can take it and and look on the bright side and turn all these lemons into some sugary, sugary lemonade.

Oh, I hope so. I mean, that's why I'm counting on. I just feel a little badly for this. Well, in a way, I feel badly for the students graduating now starting agents and managers aren't necessarily looking for new talent, even though I think there's an enormous energy towards finding new talent for all of this, all the Netflix and Amazon Prime, and all these wonderful new series with all this great new young talent, you know, but it is harder to get an agent. The one thing is a lot of them have come up with very clever ways of doing their showcases now where they're filming them. And I actually think more people are watching them. Because you know, you had to leave your office and go to the theater and see them at the end of the day and you're exhausted or you have to stop your work and go now it's on film. And so you can, you know, break down service and actors connection and stuff. I don't know what they're doing in LA, but in New York, that's what they're doing. And you can you know, say oh, I'm doing a musical. Let me you know, wind this up and go through the the musicals now I know I'm doing a straight play and I need I need this. Yeah. It's a great way to find to find

that I think there has to be a residual benefit that especially if they're able to keep the content up. So it can be referred to longer. I mean, that was one of the whole reasons I started daily fiber That whole comedy content pursuit was because I was tired of creating characters for stage roles. And you know, it's a finite moment. And if it was regional, nobody was gonna see it in New York or LA. And so I started turning that stuff into original content. And it absolutely paid dividends. So I think that is a positive in the fact that we can all we were talking about this, in our last interview, that I'm now able to support and see the productions of theaters that I love around the country. I'm very interested in that model continuing in some way, because I learned the hard way, when I, when we shot size matters, my one man show to put it on Amazon. One of the problems I ran into the whole reason we got to that point with it was because I needed I was being asked for footage of the show. And I could not get it released to me to save my life, even though I was the playwright and the writer. And yeah, I mean, the writer and the actor, and and all of it. And so what started out is just trying to film the thing. So I could use it to promote the show turned into this one man show special that got made and wishing then that was 2016, when we filmed that 15 or 16. Wishing then that, that the contracts that equity was up with the times. And we could, you know, we could have footage of shows people are doing amazing work and regional and, and more people should be able to see it.

And there's been I've done a lot of what I did theatrically last year on zoom, were readings, a lot of

so much work. So much new work.

There was so much new work and so much fun. The only thing that's an issue is that you really need to define those filmmakers who can shoot that stuff. Yeah, so it looks good. But what I've heard in terms of the showcases, what I heard from some of the colleges I've worked with, is they're hoping next year to do it live. And on tape,

when you do the way that you described that I was almost jealous for my own showcase experience, because ours wasn't really attended by anybody back in 2010. And so like if there was an opportunity that like, you know, if there were specific agents or casting directors I liked, I would love the opportunity to be like, Hi, I would love to get on your radar, this is some work that I just did no showcase, have a nice day. And it's it's a it's a you can view it in your own leisure. I love that. And,

and likewise, what I'm getting, and it makes me a little bit crazy. But I have all the directors if especially if they're not here, something's if they can't see an actor, they'll send me footage. And I'm like, Well, if you're in New York, there are not a lot of comedy shot in New York, almost everybody's gonna send you their law and order. And that might not tell you that they can do broad comedy. Right? And I don't have there's nothing here to shoot. And they say, Well, how am I supposed to tell? And so the only way I can have someone do it is audition, but I you know, if you have something that's for real, it's it's fine. And a lot of there still are a lot of theater directors who say, Well, you know, I don't watch much television and I'm going well, you're missing a lot. Yeah, that's too bad. Because maybe you're thinking about what was done in the 70s. That's not what's being done now. There's some sensational sensational work being done there, especially in the last year because the movie theaters weren't available.

So one thing I wanted to, to ask you about because I believe when we talked in December initially about doing an interview that you had mentioned one more symptom, and and that was the the haziness the brain fog. Yes. Yeah. And you had said that that

lasted quite a while it did. It did. And I don't think I have it now. I'm sure I don't have it now. But I do get fatigued earlier, and I'm not sure if that's zoom fatigue, or leftover from COVID. But my husband and myself and the dog, go to bed at 10 o'clock. That's the line in the sand. And I kept thinking, but I we used to go to the theater every night. How does that work? But we really need our eight hours. But it was it was COVID brain it was just at times my brain didn't function anymore at all.

How did you combat that when it came to doing your work?

I would just have to stop that. Say I can't do any more it's or my staff is so fantastic. I would just say, I can't think of that that this is. Yeah. Did I tell you about my other symptom? But no many people talk about this. The hair?

Oh, you did back then you please.

So, as you know, I have very thick hair. And everything, everything is fine. And about three months after I had the COVID I started when I bit combing my hair, I'd see more and more hair in my brush. And I'm going this is kind of weird. And it went on for about two weeks. And I went to my hairdresser who was fantastic. And he does mostly act as he does Kathleen Turner and Judy IV and all those people would go to him. And he said, what happens? It's from the COVID. And when you got the COVID it affected the hair follicles and the hair is breaking now then three months later comes out. He's a bunch of follicles are alright, so it's going to come back. And I've talked to my hair colorist. And she said the same thing. And so I had and I and I looked it up and there it is there that people. A lot of people lost hair. Yeah, I did. Did you lose?

Yeah, a ton. I remember when I had my and I laid in bed for multiple days without being able to get up. And when I did finally get up, there was an absurd amount of hair on this pillow. It's scary. It's It's really scary. I mean, that on top of the rest of the symptoms. I mean, it was I almost was sort of like, is this what it feels like to have cancer?

Well, I know. And they they said to me, Well, it's either the COVID or it's stress. And I said, Well, I'm stressed because my hair is falling out. I can't do anything about that, because it's stressing me. But let's just see. And so I started taking a vitamin and stuff and my hair is back. I have as you can tell I have good Yeah, you look great. Yeah, full hair. And it's longer now than when probably when Raymond last thought. It's I've just let it grow. But and I have no problem. The hair isn't falling out. I can brush it is no problem. It's normal. But I didn't read about that until until it started happening. And I looked it up on the internet. And they went Yeah, it is. And I've heard a couple doctors on TV talk about it, but it isn't people really don't talk about it much. Yeah, um, but yeah, so it was like it was caused. I mean, it was, I didn't have bald patches, but he was clearly you run a comb through it, and it was full of hair.

I'd run my fingers through and I'd be like,

oh my god. Yeah, I started running my fingers through my hair. And I'm like, What is this? What is this is like corn silk. You know, like when you're asking corn and you suddenly have all that silk on your hands? You won't have that was what was happening in my hair. Oh, wow. But they said it would come back. And it did.

And it was some sort of vitamin deficiency.

No, they said is because whatever the COVID did hurt the hair at that point in the follicle and it took 90 days for that follicle, the bottom of that follicle to reach the top to get out. As long as the follicle isn't damaged, your hair will come back. And it did.

It's almost like having your body being haunted by a ghost.

it's twofold. It's one the disease which is what it is and so, so horrible to it's what the pandemic has done to our mental state in our lives, I mean, different, two different issues. And I know my husband and I ever I don't know why I thought this and it was the wise thing to do. I think right from the get go when the pandemic started, I said, we're going to have a very organized life. And we have a regimentation, which is very similar to what we had before the pandemic. In other words, you know, we get up the right time in the morning, we get dressed for work, even though it's only going to the bedroom or the dining room, but we get up for work, we have lunch, we have dinner, we do it all in order, the weekends, we have our plan for our cleaning, because I lost obviously lost my cleaning lady and you know, all those kinds of things in the pandemic. Um, so we have very organized schedule life and we still keep it that way. And I think that has helped us immensely in terms of organizing it. We are like we were lucky, my husband, I were lucky enough to have a business that we could structure this I don't know what an actor does. It just boggles my mind and let you start writing or you start producing your own stuff, but waiting for something to happen and not being there. Hi,

I will say just actor's perspective, I actually kind of love the fact that I'm able to do a ton of my voiceover work and stuff from home. And it also means that I am, I'm away free or to give a lot more of my time and energy to my upcoming auditions. I love that I'm not spending six, seven hours a night, exhausting myself in a restaurant right now. Like, I can just continue to freelance. And, you know, when I'm at home, I can rest I can recharge, and I'm not working or acting from a place of complete exhaustion. So in a weird way, I've actually kind of I've loved the fact that I've had all this. It's not exactly downtime, but like hometime has been really, it's been really valuable. And I've enjoyed it.

I was the least productive I've ever been. And that's

a no you weren't though, because you've been do I feel like every single day, you're like, Carolyn, I got this new play. We're going to do that. We're going to talk about this new play. Carolyn, we're going to start a podcast, we're going to do this, we're gonna do that. We're going to show that to you every single day that I have known you.

Yeah, but I'm not finishing in the mall. So that's that's a big difference. But

it might be because you have I don't know so many irons in the fire.

Well, it from me actually productive as lack of productive Miss whatever is the wrong way to put it. Because I do feel like I've been productive and learning other lessons. Right? So I realized, much like I connected to the way you put your COVID brain story, Pat, that that there that when you were done, you were done. You just had to admit it. I had a lot of that. And it was if it wasn't COVID related, fatigue related, it was actually some sort of mental health, like I cannot focus, I need to move on to I've been learning a very healthy mix of one that hits to get up and do something physical, to I've for the past. Gosh, I guess going back to when I was in high school, I started to become the steward of all of our family documents and family photos. That's good. Yeah, yeah. And I have loved these, I mean, 20 boxes of this stuff all over the country as I've moved. And I brought the last bit home from Tennessee A few years ago, and it's just been sitting in our storage. And so I've been scanning at all, and I just dropped off a whole bunch of it to family members in Tennessee on our on our road trip. And it feels so good to get that off my plate. Now that's not going to pay my bills, that's not going to pay my mortgage. I you know, I don't even know if the family members that gave it to care. But for me, it feels good. And I and it was just some stuff i i think i personally had to learn and get off my plate. You know,

it's funny, you said that because my sister has done that. My sister has done that she was she's the family historian, there's always a family historian. Yes, my sister was a family historian. And then the other day, my nephew, who's a beekeeper in Maine, it's long and involved. But he needs to also become now the family and he went back on my my Mars, our side of the family, my brother on our side of the family, he went back to like 1000 home what he went way back, way, way back. I mean, he did all this stuff in in the States, but he went back to Scotland, where McCorkle was a and did this whole thing about the history on when they change the name, how the chain that he was at, you know, change anglicised or whatever you call it, and went way, way back. And it was really weird. My sister just said, so I guess he's now going to be the family historian. It's really crazy. But that but you're right. That's the time that you you can investigate some of this stuff. I've been telling my students, like, catch up on older films that people refer to and and I'll make some suggestions about something I've seen. And then they'll watch it. And the next week we talk about it, and the older films, and then how does that reflect in the new films? And so I've been I've been trying to use that material with them as well. That's great.

We're already kind of on this topic. But we always love to round out the podcast on a on a hopeful and positive note. And it's I love to ask the question, what is giving you hope right now and what's keeping you going? Well,

it's exciting that we're starting to come back. And I and I'm really excited about the new writing and we've talked about the pandemic and we talked about you know, all the things with regards to that but the diversity issue is fantastic. And what that's bringing forward and the new stories that are being told that need to be told. I find all that very Very, very exciting. Um, and so I'm just looking forward to whatever kind of new material we can find it in a new way. I, I don't, I'm not discouraged by it, but it's going to be different. It's just we have to know that it's that it has to be different, fortunately, and the world is going to be a different place. Yeah. And that's, that's okay, too. I'm, you know, I I'm and I can't wait to start traveling again. To my husband, I going to the Galapagos for Christmas. Oh, gratulations. That's a blast. Well, we were supposed to go last summer. And we couldn't. So now we've put it off until Christmas, because we hear that's the best time to go.

This is just because you want the best Christmas card ever with a is on a turtle.

I know. You might be it might be. No, we just decided. We decided a couple years ago to see the world and we have found it. Fantastic. And we and just so exciting and has nothing to do with showbusiness. It has to do with the world. And we just have really, really gotten into it. And we just keep planning what we want to do. And I want to see the Galapagos before the turtles disappear. Oh, you know, save a few while you're at it. Exactly. Well, you know, the thing of it is you can just be a better artist, too, by getting to see these people and getting to know them. And they're, they're fantastic. But the whole point of life and stuff. It's just so much enriched by knowing these people. And I like to bring that to my work of choosing scripts choosing cas, and just giving some different kind of point of view on it. And you really need to, to, to embrace that. We're lucky enough. Now the we're not going to see as many on the Galapagos, I realized that it's limited. And I my husband has learned to scuba dive. I'm not scuba diving, but he's and he'll get to see a lot more than I will. But I think it's just exciting, and I feel very optimistic about all that stuff. Hey, this

is Caroline Raymond, thank you so much for listening to fatigued from patients to paramedics,

long haulers to lessons learned. Sure, it's the same virus but these are very different stories.

If you have a question or a story you'd like us to address on an episode, please email us at fatigued podcast@gmail.com. That's fit igpu ed podcast@gmail.com.

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stay positive test negative and thanks for listening. Bye